Interview with Mark Knopfler

By Steven P. Wheeler - Music Connection Magazine, 1996

With more than 80 million records sold worldwide, and the release of his first official solo album, 'Golden Heart,' this Sultan Of Swing is no longer in dire straits

He may well be halfway through the fourth decade of his life, and his latest Warner Bros. release, Golden Heart, may only be his first studio album in five years-and only the second since his former band, Dire Straits' 1985 Number One blockbuster, Brothers In Arms-but Mark Knopfler has more going for him than meets the eye.

First off, good friend Eric Clapton and other contemporaries such as Rod Stewart made their biggest commercial moves at the age of 48. And let's face it, Knopfler, who looked older than his 29 years when Dire Straits first grabbed headlines with the finger-picking brilliance of "Sultans Of Swing," has never relied on trends, gimmicks or matinee idol looks to make his mark.

In fact, Dire Straits' self-titled Top Ten debut was released in the face of the punk rock onslaught back in 1978, and "Sultans" became an anthem for the perfectly named unknown band from London who stood firm in their musical stance.

And things haven't changed all that much in the nearly 20 years since the former journalist and part-time teacher watched his musical teachings catch on with an international audience, in the process gaining more respect (and money) than he might have ever received sitting behind a typewriter or in front of a blackboard.

Nineteen years on, with his Dylan-esque, hook-ridden songwriting touch continuing to push the envelope of discovery, his gruff talking-blues voice still intact, and above all, a prowess with a six-string that few can match-Mark Knopfler returns to the spotlight with his first official solo album, Golden Heart (discounting various film scores, as well as occasional side projects, such as his Grammy winning work with guitar legend Chet Atkins and his other informal band, the Notting Hillbillies, who released one album with Warner Bros. back in 1990).

And judging from the quality of his work on Golden Heart, Knopfler has assembled one of the strongest works of his platinum-coated career. Golden Heart is a stunning collection of material that echoes his Dire Straits past as much as it reflects the wide spectrum of Knopfler's current musical interests.

During an early morning phone conversation from his hotel room in Nashville, the modest, gravelly voiced Englishman seems to relish playing down his past accomplishments-for instance, insisting that he is disappointed with the current state of his guitar playing.
As his new band is preparing for an upcoming four-month tour, which will include a healthy mixture of Dire Straits material, the veteran guitarist says, "I've spent the last few years laying off the guitar a little bit, and I feel a little underpowered in that area."

When this statement is greeted with a laugh of disbelief, especially after hearing the trademark sweet, melodic licks that are sprinkled throughout Golden Heart, Knopfler grew even more adamant about his personal battle. "It's absolutely true. There is not the slightest bit of false modesty intended either-it's a major concern.

"I should be playing and practicing a bit," says the underrated songwriter responsible for such Top Ten hits as "Sultans Of Swing," "Money For Nothing" and "Walk Of Life," as well as having songs recorded by a litany of diverse artists, including Tina Turner ("Private Dancer"), Eric Clapton ("Setting Me Up") and Mary Chapin Carpenter ("The Bug"), in addition to scripting such epic rock tales as "Romeo And Juliet," "Private Investigations" and "Telegraph Road."

Fortunately, Mark Knopfler is currently rehearsing in the homey confines of Nashville, Tennessee, where a majority of the new album was recorded. Fortunate, for the simple fact that six-string pioneer Chet Atkins (see interview, page 30), the closest thing to a mentor for Knopfler, resides there.

"Yesterday, I was visiting with Chet," relates Knopfler, "and I asked him if he could give me some tablature, and he dug some stuff out of a cupboard. Now, what I need to do is structure [practicing] a little bit, instead of just noodling around where I end up songwriting instead. I've got this difficult stuff now from Chet, and I'll work out on it. All the knowledge is there to feed, but I must admit that I've been fairly lax with the instrument lately."

Still, being "underpowered" in the guitar area is something that nobody has ever accused Mark Knopfler of being, but this is also a musician whose very words define only one description-perfectionist.

And that's especially true when discussing the work ethic he maintains in the recording studio. "You can't possibly work out all the available options-there are just too many. You can close in on a sound that you're looking for and you can get reasonably close, but that's all that it'll be. It's merely an attempt at the song."

Using a theatrical analogy, Knopfler adds, "Before a play starts, when I go to a theater, I just wish that one time an actor would come out and say, 'Good evening ladies and gentlemen, we're going to have a swing at Macbeth tonight.'

"You see, it's only an attempt," he continues. "Recording isn't much different than that for me. I don't know of any shortcuts-you can't simply say, 'Dial in this sound for this song,' because every song has its own puzzles. To me, recordings just seem like early versions. You can only do what you think is right at the time, and often the music teaches you later that something else could have been better."

Other viable solutions are often found on the concert stage, as evidenced by the instrumental explorations on Dire Straits' brilliant 1984 live set, Alchemy. Knopfler elaborates on his continuing drive to perfect his muse, saying, "With songs like 'Sultans' or 'Money For Nothing,' there is an element of recital about them, but that doesn't bother me because I will always try to find new things to do with them. Like with the song, 'Brothers In Arms,' I know on any day I can play that better than what's on the record.

"Onstage, there are always improvisational sections where I haven't got a clue what I'm gonna play next, and I mark those sections with bits from the songs that are recognizable. Those bits help the band-the familiar bits are like markers, so the band knows how we're going to get from one section to the other."

It's been a long time since the Scottish-born Englishman first picked up a guitar, but the passion of youth is still evident at times, for example, when Knopfler enthusiastically spoke of his early musical roots. "When I was eight or nine years old, I was listening to skiffle records-people like Lonnie Donegan. When I was about eleven, the very first Bob Dylan record made a big impression, but when I got into my teens, it became all about the blues.

"B.B. King's Live At The Regal was a big record for me," he recalls. "It was a very emotional record in that I became conscious of this triangle between the singer, the guitar and the audience. It was that three-cornered conversation that made a very deep impression on me. Then, with people like Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker and Howlin' Wolf, the whole deal started to really fall into place."

But success didn't come immediately, and as is the case with every struggling musician, success almost didn't come at all. The ultimate commercial success and worldwide acceptance of Dire Straits was fueled by Mark Knopfler's progression as an original rock guitarist and clever songwriter.

"I was definitely self-taught, and I never specialized in any one style," Knopfler says of his unusual finger-picking six-string method. "I was learning the pick on acoustic guitars, while hoping for an amplifier and an electric. I was always a frustrated rocker, borrowing acoustic guitars and playing in folk joints. The finger-picking just developed because I started playing more and more without picks-mainly because I was always losing them.

"So I started finger-picking and breaking the rules-playing more and more little figures and licks with my fingers," he continues. "Instead of spreading my fingers over the bottom from the top, I ended up putting my thumb where it had no business being, at the top end, and putting my fingers where they had no business being, on the bottom end."

Despite the success of his homegrown playing style, the 46-year-old finger-picker seems to suggest more conventional means for up-and-comers. "I actually love picks-they're the best amplifier known to man. They're far cleaner than fingers, they're much faster than fingers and you can do a lot more with them. I've always loved playing with a pick, and every now and again when I'm recording, I always manage to get a pick part in there."

With Golden Heart, Knopfler has gotten much more than just a guitar pick in there, as the veteran singer-songwriter has come up with the most versatile and wide-ranging collection of sounds and songs of his eclectic career. At the same time, he has also come up with a very accessible approach that more than mirrors his past successes with Dire Straits, especially on the "Walk Of Life" keyboard hop of the spirited "Cannibals" or the "Heavy Fuel" guitar sound of "Imelda" (a lyrically dated poke at former Phillipines first lady Imelda Marcos).

However, with fourteen songs tracking more than 70 minutes of intricate music, Knopfler has also hit on previously ignored influences of his childhood. "I've been into white music and black music for as long as I can remember, and there's a delicious place where they meet. I suppose that's called rock & roll, isn't it?

"But there's also a Celtic thing for me," he points out, "and that's more obvious on this record. I suppose it's kind of Scottish Celtic music; at least I've been told that it's not an Irish Celtic music, that it's more Scottish in feel. 'Darling Pretty' [the album's luscious opener] and 'A Night In Summer Long Ago' are Celtic melodies in a way, but I play them with rock bands."

In fact, that diversity is the magic of Knopfler's musical universe. "I hate purists of any musical style," he explains. "I mean, 'Are We In Trouble Now' [the album's closing song that was recently cut by country superstar Randy Travis] is the only country type song on this album, but I put a big heavy guitar on it to insure that it never gets played on country radio [laughs]. A song like 'Je Suis D?sole' [one of the album's centerpieces] is a big mixture-it's folk, it's blues, it's Cajun, but at the same time it's neither of those. That's what I like to do."

Musical growth has been the modus operandi for Knopfler since he took Dire Straits, a struggling hillbilly-blues rock quartet, through an impressive musical evolution, which started around the time of the band's third album, Making Movies, in 1980, when keyboards were first brought into the Dire Straits' fold. In time, Dire Straits would grow to a nine-piece outfit onstage-including two or three guitars, two keyboards, percussion and saxophone.

Knopfler merely sees those expansions as a natural process that continues to this day. "That's what happens at all stages of your career. You start by yourself, then you maybe start a duo, then you start to work with a drummer and a bass player, and the time spent doing that is very valuable.

"But as soon as you get a keyboard in there," he explains, "it changes the way you arrange things. You start to listen, you hear different inversions of things, and then there are two keyboards and a percussionist or whatever. For me, that's the best way to learn how to arrange."

Throughout the band's history, Dire Straits was known for Knopfler's arrangement style, which thrived on subtle dynamics and precise productions-something that would prompt other artists to ask Knopfler to produce them, as Bob Dylan, his one-time inspiration, did on 1983's Infidels.

Nevertheless, the soft-spoken musical veteran insists, "A lot of people tell me that they think the Dire Straits' records are well-recorded, and I have managed to work with people who do record well, but sometimes people will come see me play live and they think it's all sonically good, even though it may not necessarily be."

Instead, Knopfler points to the musical dynamics with which Dire Straits built its lasting reputation as being the truth behind the illusion. "It's just that people are playing parts-good parts are what's important. A lot of good parts can lead you to believe that a record or a performance sounds good, when it doesn't necessarily sound as good as it could."

These patented textures are present throughout Golden Heart, fleshed out by some of the top studio musicians in the music industry's songwriting capital, Nashville, Tennessee.

"The great thing about these players is that they're in the business of making records very, very quickly," maintains Knopfler. "But I think they enjoyed working on this album because they had more than 25 minutes to find the secret of something. They're so damn good that they can adapt and change a mood very quickly.

"They're like musical angels-[organist-keyboardist] Steve Nathan, [pedal steel guitarist] Paul Franklin, [guitarist] Richard Bennett, [bassists] Michael Rhodes and Glenn Worf. Those guys have wings, man."

Probably the biggest misconception about so-called Nashville Cats is that they don't have the soul and power of rock & rollers in the big cities. "These guys can rumble up some thunder like nobody's business," argues Knopfler, "so if you want a seriously heavy, heavy rock & roll group, Nashville is a great place to be.

"They're like the dogs of war, man," he continues. "You've got to hold them back from some songs, because they'll rip the guts out of a song if you let them [laughs]."

Interestingly enough, the actual recording of Golden Heart started in Ireland when Knopfler got together with a group of traditional Celtic musicians and recorded a few songs in Dublin. The experience so revitalized Knopfler that he was inspired to write even more material, but this time he began envisioning how a stateside band in Tennessee would color his artistic vision.

Golden Heart is the final result-a result that is as powerful in its simplicity, as it is majestic in its textured blend of musical styles.

"I was fortunate enough to be surrounded by great people. [Singer-songwriter] Paul Brady helped me put together the band in Ireland, Paul Franklin helped put together the groups in Tennessee, and a good friend of mine, Paul Kennerley, inspired me to use these Louisiana musicians like [guitarist] Sonny Landreth, [fiddle player] Michael Doucet and [accordionist] Steve Conn."

As for the future of his "other" band, Knopfler merely says, "Dire Straits pretty much always broke up at the end of every tour because our tours were so long.
"But we're still friends-[founding member and bassist] John Illsley is one of my oldest mates-so I think we'll still do shows here and there, probably mostly for charity."
But don't count on much more than that in the future, if you read between the lines of Knopfler's remarks.

"Getting Dire Straits together is quite a big deal," Knopfler notes, "because there are so many things involved with it-sound crews, roadies, rehearsals-whereas my other band [the Notting Hillbillies] just needs one day of rehearsal [laughs] and we can play in very small places.

"I think the new concert tour I'm about to do with my new band is somewhere between Straits and the Hillbillies," Knopfler concludes.